https://brongersma.info/index.php?title=Man/boy_love_and_the_American_gay_movement&feed=atom&action=historyMan/boy love and the American gay movement - Revision history2024-03-28T08:21:15ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.38.4https://brongersma.info/index.php?title=Man/boy_love_and_the_American_gay_movement&diff=40849&oldid=prevAdmin at 19:29, 19 May 20182018-05-19T19:29:18Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Text by </del>David Thorstad'''</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">By: </ins>David Thorstad'''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><b>SUMMARY.</b> The issue of man/boy love has intersected the gay movement since the late nineteenth century, with the rise of the first gay rights movement in Germany. In the United States, as the gay movement has retreated from its vision of sexual freedom for all in favor of integration into existing social and political structures, it has sought to marginalize cross-generational love as a "non-gay" issue. The two movements continue to overlap, amid signs of mutual support as well as tension - a state of affairs that also characterizes their interrelationship in other countries. This article offers an overview and analysis of that interrelationship in the United States since the Stonewall Riots in New York City in June 1969, which marked the beginning of a reinvigorated struggle for gay liberation.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><b>SUMMARY.</b> The issue of man/boy love has intersected the gay movement since the late nineteenth century, with the rise of the first gay rights movement in Germany. In the United States, as the gay movement has retreated from its vision of sexual freedom for all in favor of integration into existing social and political structures, it has sought to marginalize cross-generational love as a "non-gay" issue. The two movements continue to overlap, amid signs of mutual support as well as tension - a state of affairs that also characterizes their interrelationship in other countries. This article offers an overview and analysis of that interrelationship in the United States since the Stonewall Riots in New York City in June 1969, which marked the beginning of a reinvigorated struggle for gay liberation.<br></div></td></tr>
</table>Adminhttps://brongersma.info/index.php?title=Man/boy_love_and_the_American_gay_movement&diff=40848&oldid=prevAdmin at 19:28, 19 May 20182018-05-19T19:28:26Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>23. A member of the contingent tore off Hay's sign, ostensibly to protest the interference with Hay's right to carry whatever sign he wanted. Hay escaped arrest, but CSW's attempt to censor a founder of the American gay movement aroused widespread indignation. This did not prevent CSW from formally voting to censure Hay a few weeks later.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>23. A member of the contingent tore off Hay's sign, ostensibly to protest the interference with Hay's right to carry whatever sign he wanted. Hay escaped arrest, but CSW's attempt to censor a founder of the American gay movement aroused widespread indignation. This did not prevent CSW from formally voting to censure Hay a few weeks later.<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>24. Private communication to author from a lesbian girl-lover.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>24. Private communication to author from a lesbian girl-lover.<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>25. This "realism" is not new. The boy-love movement in Germany at the beginning of the century arose as part of the new homosexual activism and self-organization, and its trajectory intersected that of the broader gay movement. Boy-lovers were hardly (as A. Damien Martin put it) "outside the movement" - one of the first gay magazines, <i>Der Eigene</i>, was inspired by boy-love and anarchism. But then, as now, the two groupings did not always see eye to eye. Some of the issues they confronted are still around today (the nature of same-sex love, sexual liberation or law reform, the age of consent, attitudes toward women's liberation). On these, boy-lovers had views that differed from those of other homosexuals, as well as from each other. The anarchist boy-lover John Henry Mackay, for example, who wrote under the pen name Sagitta, was indignant at the efforts of Magnus Hirschfeld's Scientific Humanitarian Committee to trade off repeal of Paragraph 175, the sodomy statute, for setting an age of consent at 16. "For it has been shown again in these years," he wrote in the preface to the 1924 edition of his <i>Buecher der namenlosen Liebe</i> (Books of the Nameless Love), "that this love has to look for its worst enemies among those who call themselves 'leaders' in this fight and have made themselves responsible, in one of their ridiculous and degrading petitions to those currently in power, have publicly advocated an 'age of consent' - not for children, but for mature boys and youths - and thereby the prosecution and punishment of those whom they know, as no others do, to be just as innocent as themselves, and once again those who love an older age have sought to save themselves at the cost of the comrades-in-fate of their time - a betrayal of the cause more disgraceful in intention and more dreadful in its result cannot be imagined." (Quoted in Hubert Kennedy, <i>Anarchist of Love: The Secret Life of John Henry Mackay</i>, p. 10.) <i>Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose</i>. For a more detailed discussion of these subjects, see my essay "Man/Boy Love Then and Now- A Personal-Political Appraisal" in <i>NAMBLA Journal</i> No. 7 (1986).<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>25. This "realism" is not new. The boy-love movement in Germany at the beginning of the century arose as part of the new homosexual activism and self-organization, and its trajectory intersected that of the broader gay movement. Boy-lovers were hardly (as A. Damien Martin put it) "outside the movement" - one of the first gay magazines, <i>Der Eigene</i>, was inspired by boy-love and anarchism. But then, as now, the two groupings did not always see eye to eye. Some of the issues they confronted are still around today (the nature of same-sex love, sexual liberation or law reform, the age of consent, attitudes toward women's liberation). On these, boy-lovers had views that differed from those of other homosexuals, as well as from each other. The anarchist boy-lover John Henry Mackay, for example, who wrote under the pen name Sagitta, was indignant at the efforts of Magnus Hirschfeld's Scientific Humanitarian Committee to trade off repeal of Paragraph 175, the sodomy statute, for setting an age of consent at 16. "For it has been shown again in these years," he wrote in the preface to the 1924 edition of his <i>Buecher der namenlosen Liebe</i> (Books of the Nameless Love), "that this love has to look for its worst enemies among those who call themselves 'leaders' in this fight and have made themselves responsible, in one of their ridiculous and degrading petitions to those currently in power, have publicly advocated an 'age of consent' - not for children, but for mature boys and youths - and thereby the prosecution and punishment of those whom they know, as no others do, to be just as innocent as themselves, and once again those who love an older age have sought to save themselves at the cost of the comrades-in-fate of their time - a betrayal of the cause more disgraceful in intention and more dreadful in its result cannot be imagined." (Quoted in Hubert Kennedy, <i>Anarchist of Love: The Secret Life of John Henry Mackay</i>, p. 10.) <i>Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose</i>. For a more detailed discussion of these subjects, see my essay "Man/Boy Love Then and Now - A Personal-Political Appraisal" in <i>NAMBLA Journal</i> No. 7 (1986).<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>26. WCBS-TV news report, January 12, 1986, 6:30 p.m.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>26. WCBS-TV news report, January 12, 1986, 6:30 p.m.<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>27. NAMBLA is one of the few gay groups to address the subject. On January 11, 1986, its Steering Committee adopted an official position on AIDS that included a demand for "Free health care for persons with AIDS." By early 1989, New York City's AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power (ACT UP) was advancing the slogan "Health Care is a Right," which implicitly points to the need for a national health care program.</small><br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>27. NAMBLA is one of the few gay groups to address the subject. On January 11, 1986, its Steering Committee adopted an official position on AIDS that included a demand for "Free health care for persons with AIDS." By early 1989, New York City's AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power (ACT UP) was advancing the slogan "Health Care is a Right," which implicitly points to the need for a national health care program.</small><br></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Thorstad, D. (Ed.; 1981). <i>Gay liberation and socialism: Documents from the discussions on gay liberation inside the Socialist Workers Party (1970-1973)</i> (2nd ed.). New York: Privately printed.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Thorstad, D. (Ed.; 1981). <i>Gay liberation and socialism: Documents from the discussions on gay liberation inside the Socialist Workers Party (1970-1973)</i> (2nd ed.). New York: Privately printed.<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Thorstad, D. (1986). Man/boy love then and now - a personal - political appraisal. <i>NAMBLA Journal</i> (No. 7), pp. 6-13.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Thorstad, D. (1986). Man/boy love then and now - a personal-political appraisal. <i>NAMBLA Journal</i> (No. 7), pp. 6-13.<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Thorstad, D. (1979). The Socialist Workers Party vs. gay liberation (or the cuckoo builds a strange nest). <i>Gay Activist</i>, June-July, pp. 12-16. (Also published in <i>Gay Insurgent</i> (No. 7), Spring 1981, pp. 17-23.)<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Thorstad, D. (1979). The Socialist Workers Party vs. gay liberation (or the cuckoo builds a strange nest). <i>Gay Activist</i>, June-July, pp. 12-16. (Also published in <i>Gay Insurgent</i> (No. 7), Spring 1981, pp. 17-23.)<br></div></td></tr>
</table>Adminhttps://brongersma.info/index.php?title=Man/boy_love_and_the_American_gay_movement&diff=40847&oldid=prevAdmin at 19:25, 19 May 20182018-05-19T19:25:52Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>17. The March 17, 1983, issue of the Libertarian Student Association's publication, <i>Libertarian Broadside</i>, was devoted to NAMBLA's positions.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>17. The March 17, 1983, issue of the Libertarian Student Association's publication, <i>Libertarian Broadside</i>, was devoted to NAMBLA's positions.<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>18. Charles Jurrist, "Grim Fairy Tales: The World According to NAMBLA," <i>New York Native</i>, February 28-March 13, 1983.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>18. Charles Jurrist, "Grim Fairy Tales: The World According to NAMBLA," <i>New York Native</i>, February 28-March 13, 1983.<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>19. <i>New York City News</i>, March 9, 1983, p. 1. The publisher refused NAMBLA's request for space to reply. In 1981, IPLGY - whose name sounds like it was designed to look good on grant applications - expelled three members of NAMBLA on the grounds that man/boy love was incompatible with its goals. "We felt from the beginning that NAMBLA's goals and priorities were antithetical to the needs of gay and lesbian youth," Martin told the <i>New York Native</i> (July 1-14, 1985). He said that his institute tells gay youth that one of their options is to "postpone sex until it can be more satisfying." This sounds like the advice of the Reagan Administration, whose Adolescent Family Life Program funded 71 projects in 1981 urging teenagers to practice sexual abstinence. Martin was appointed by Governor Mario Cuomo to the New York State Council on Youth Suicide Prevention in the fall of 1985. At the New York City Gay Pride March on June 30, 1985, some of the IPLGY youths broke into a chant of "2, 4, 6, 8 -How do you know your wife is straight? 3, 5, 7, 9 - Hey, lady, your husband's mine!" They were quickly shushed up by one of IPLGY's top men.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>19. <i>New York City News</i>, March 9, 1983, p. 1. The publisher refused NAMBLA's request for space to reply. In 1981, IPLGY - whose name sounds like it was designed to look good on grant applications - expelled three members of NAMBLA on the grounds that man/boy love was incompatible with its goals. "We felt from the beginning that NAMBLA's goals and priorities were antithetical to the needs of gay and lesbian youth," Martin told the <i>New York Native</i> (July 1-14, 1985). He said that his institute tells gay youth that one of their options is to "postpone sex until it can be more satisfying." This sounds like the advice of the Reagan Administration, whose Adolescent Family Life Program funded 71 projects in 1981 urging teenagers to practice sexual abstinence. Martin was appointed by Governor Mario Cuomo to the New York State Council on Youth Suicide Prevention in the fall of 1985. At the New York City Gay Pride March on June 30, 1985, some of the IPLGY youths broke into a chant of "2, 4, 6, 8 - How do you know your wife is straight? 3, 5, 7, 9 - Hey, lady, your husband's mine!" They were quickly shushed up by one of IPLGY's top men.<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>20. "Boy-Love Activists Seek Gay Support" by Mark McHarry, <i>Bay Area Reporter</i>, October 11, 1984. Hay and Kepner again addressed a NAMBLA conference in Los Angeles on November 7, 1986.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>20. "Boy-Love Activists Seek Gay Support" by Mark McHarry, <i>Bay Area Reporter</i>, October 11, 1984. Hay and Kepner again addressed a NAMBLA conference in Los Angeles on November 7, 1986.<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>21. <i>New York Native</i>, March 25-April 7, 1985, p. 10.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>21. <i>New York Native</i>, March 25-April 7, 1985, p. 10.<br></div></td></tr>
</table>Adminhttps://brongersma.info/index.php?title=Man/boy_love_and_the_American_gay_movement&diff=40846&oldid=prevAdmin at 19:23, 19 May 20182018-05-19T19:23:18Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Thorstad, D. (Ed.; 1981). <i>Gay liberation and socialism: Documents from the discussions on gay liberation inside the Socialist Workers Party (1970-1973)</i> (2nd ed.). New York: Privately printed.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Thorstad, D. (Ed.; 1981). <i>Gay liberation and socialism: Documents from the discussions on gay liberation inside the Socialist Workers Party (1970-1973)</i> (2nd ed.). New York: Privately printed.<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Thorstad, D. (1986). Man/boy love then and now-a personal - political appraisal. <i>NAMBLA Journal</i> (No. 7), pp. 6-13.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Thorstad, D. (1986). Man/boy love then and now - a personal - political appraisal. <i>NAMBLA Journal</i> (No. 7), pp. 6-13.<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Thorstad, D. (1979). The Socialist Workers Party vs. gay liberation (or the cuckoo builds a strange nest). <i>Gay Activist</i>, June-July, pp. 12-16. (Also published in <i>Gay Insurgent</i> (No. 7), Spring 1981, pp. 17-23.)<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Thorstad, D. (1979). The Socialist Workers Party vs. gay liberation (or the cuckoo builds a strange nest). <i>Gay Activist</i>, June-July, pp. 12-16. (Also published in <i>Gay Insurgent</i> (No. 7), Spring 1981, pp. 17-23.)<br></div></td></tr>
</table>Adminhttps://brongersma.info/index.php?title=Man/boy_love_and_the_American_gay_movement&diff=40845&oldid=prevAdmin at 19:22, 19 May 20182018-05-19T19:22:08Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>6. <i>Gay Community News</i>, March 3, 1979, p. 5.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>6. <i>Gay Community News</i>, March 3, 1979, p. 5.<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>7. Copy in author's files. The poll, dated February 26, 1979, contained several misspelled words, which have been corrected here.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>7. Copy in author's files. The poll, dated February 26, 1979, contained several misspelled words, which have been corrected here.<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>8. Copy in author's files. This statement, dated March 7, 1979, was sent to as many members of the committee as addresses could be found for. Seven years later, a conference in New York City (November 14-16, 1986) to call a second march on Washington the following October adopted as a demand the repeal of "all laws that violate the right to privacy by criminalizing consensual sex <i>above the sexual age of consent</i>" (emphasis added). The workshop on demands defeated the following motion: "Government out of the bedroom! No state regulation of sex." By 1986, the U.S. gay movement had become so disoriented by hysteria about youth sexuality that it actually favored government regulation of consensual sex -especially if it involved gay men and underage youths!<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>8. Copy in author's files. This statement, dated March 7, 1979, was sent to as many members of the committee as addresses could be found for. Seven years later, a conference in New York City (November 14-16, 1986) to call a second march on Washington the following October adopted as a demand the repeal of "all laws that violate the right to privacy by criminalizing consensual sex <i>above the sexual age of consent</i>" (emphasis added). The workshop on demands defeated the following motion: "Government out of the bedroom! No state regulation of sex." By 1986, the U.S. gay movement had become so disoriented by hysteria about youth sexuality that it actually favored government regulation of consensual sex - especially if it involved gay men and underage youths!<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>9. "Man/Boy Lovers - New Group, Old Story." (Emphasis in original.) Copy in author's files.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>9. "Man/Boy Lovers - New Group, Old Story." (Emphasis in original.) Copy in author's files.<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>10. Rich Finkel and Matilde Zimmermann, "The class-struggle road to winning gay rights," <i>The Militant</i>, April 13, 1979, p. 25. For an answer to this article, see David Thorstad, "The Socialist Workers Party vs. Gay Liberation (or the Cuckoo Builds a Strange Nest)," in the <i>Gay Activist</i> (June-July, 1979) and in <i>Gay Insurgent</i> (No. 7, Spring 1981). In contrast to the SWP, two small Trotskyist groups - the Revolutionary Socialist League and the Spartacist League - defended NAMBLA and opposed government interference in any consensual relationship, regardless of the age of the partners.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>10. Rich Finkel and Matilde Zimmermann, "The class-struggle road to winning gay rights," <i>The Militant</i>, April 13, 1979, p. 25. For an answer to this article, see David Thorstad, "The Socialist Workers Party vs. Gay Liberation (or the Cuckoo Builds a Strange Nest)," in the <i>Gay Activist</i> (June-July, 1979) and in <i>Gay Insurgent</i> (No. 7, Spring 1981). In contrast to the SWP, two small Trotskyist groups - the Revolutionary Socialist League and the Spartacist League - defended NAMBLA and opposed government interference in any consensual relationship, regardless of the age of the partners.<br></div></td></tr>
</table>Adminhttps://brongersma.info/index.php?title=Man/boy_love_and_the_American_gay_movement&diff=40844&oldid=prevAdmin at 19:19, 19 May 20182018-05-19T19:19:40Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The controversy continued to simmer. On April 1, 1980, following a heated debate, the CLGR decided to call for my removal as a keynote speaker at a gay rights rally on the steps of the state capitol in Albany. Although the effort failed, it did result in most lesbian groups boycotting the demonstration. A half dozen of the most active groups in the coalition resigned.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The controversy continued to simmer. On April 1, 1980, following a heated debate, the CLGR decided to call for my removal as a keynote speaker at a gay rights rally on the steps of the state capitol in Albany. Although the effort failed, it did result in most lesbian groups boycotting the demonstration. A half dozen of the most active groups in the coalition resigned.<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Later that month, a few lesbians attempted, in vain, to persuade NAMBLA to leave a march in New York City protesting a mobilization the same day by the Christian right wing in Washington, DC Mark Moffet, a 15-year-old speaker from Gay Youth of New York at the rally in Sheridan Square that ended the march, defended the right of boy-lovers to participate in the movement. He was booed by a claque from NOW -the only time I have seen presumably straight supporters boo a gay speaker at a gay rally.<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Later that month, a few lesbians attempted, in vain, to persuade NAMBLA to leave a march in New York City protesting a mobilization the same day by the Christian right wing in Washington, DC Mark Moffet, a 15-year-old speaker from Gay Youth of New York at the rally in Sheridan Square that ended the march, defended the right of boy-lovers to participate in the movement. He was booed by a claque from NOW - the only time I have seen presumably straight supporters boo a gay speaker at a gay rally.<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Two months later, a group calling itself the "Lesbian Caucus-Lesbian & Gay Pride March Committee" tried to split the annual New York City Gay Pride March on June 29. It distributed a leaflet calling on women to split from the march on the false grounds that the organizing committee "has been dominated by the Revolutionary Socialist League, the North American Man/Boy Lovers Association {<i>sic</i>} and their supporters." At the entrance to Central Park, they tried to divert people away from the official rally to a separate event No address or phone contact appeared on the leaflet. [11] A special issue of <i>Semiotext(e)</i> on "Loving Boys," an important contribution to the growing debate, and now an underground classic, was distributed at the march. [12]<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Two months later, a group calling itself the "Lesbian Caucus-Lesbian & Gay Pride March Committee" tried to split the annual New York City Gay Pride March on June 29. It distributed a leaflet calling on women to split from the march on the false grounds that the organizing committee "has been dominated by the Revolutionary Socialist League, the North American Man/Boy Lovers Association {<i>sic</i>} and their supporters." At the entrance to Central Park, they tried to divert people away from the official rally to a separate event No address or phone contact appeared on the leaflet. [11] A special issue of <i>Semiotext(e)</i> on "Loving Boys," an important contribution to the growing debate, and now an underground classic, was distributed at the march. [12]<br></div></td></tr>
</table>Adminhttps://brongersma.info/index.php?title=Man/boy_love_and_the_American_gay_movement&diff=40843&oldid=prevAdmin at 19:17, 19 May 20182018-05-19T19:17:12Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The fact that boy-lovers had come out of their closet within a closet immediately embroiled the gay movement in controversy. <i>Gay Community News</i>' first 1979 issue published my "Statement to the Gay Liberation Movement on the Issue of Man/Boy Love," which challenged the movement to return to a vision of sexual liberation. It argued that "the ultimate goal of gay liberation is the achievement of sexual freedom for all - not just equal rights for 'lesbians and gay men/ but also freedom of sexual expression for young people and children." It criticized the movement for "limiting itself to a turf restricted to consenting adults" and behaving "as though sex had nothing - or little - to do with our struggle." It urged the movement not to limit its demands "to those thought acceptable to a frightened status quo." [5]<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The fact that boy-lovers had come out of their closet within a closet immediately embroiled the gay movement in controversy. <i>Gay Community News</i>' first 1979 issue published my "Statement to the Gay Liberation Movement on the Issue of Man/Boy Love," which challenged the movement to return to a vision of sexual liberation. It argued that "the ultimate goal of gay liberation is the achievement of sexual freedom for all - not just equal rights for 'lesbians and gay men/ but also freedom of sexual expression for young people and children." It criticized the movement for "limiting itself to a turf restricted to consenting adults" and behaving "as though sex had nothing - or little - to do with our struggle." It urged the movement not to limit its demands "to those thought acceptable to a frightened status quo." [5]<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>This "manifesto" set off a debate that lasted several months. Much of the lesbian response was hostile and buttressed with arguments like "lesbians don't do that." But a piece by one lesbian feminist stood out for its sensible treatment of a topic heretofore passed over in silence: woman-girl love. Beth Kelly's "On 'Woman/Girl Love' -Or, Lesbians <i>Do</i> 'Do It'" noted that the ignorant reactions of many lesbians to man/boy love had helped her to understand "what it could mean to know that your most intensely private moments were nothing more than threads in the widely woven fabric of political experience that enfolds us all." A lifelong lesbian, she acknowledged being involved in cross-generational love "as a girl and as a woman." She described her sexual love for her great-aunt - more than 50 years her senior - when she was between eight and eleven years old. She summarized her journey to self-acceptance:<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>This "manifesto" set off a debate that lasted several months. Much of the lesbian response was hostile and buttressed with arguments like "lesbians don't do that." But a piece by one lesbian feminist stood out for its sensible treatment of a topic heretofore passed over in silence: woman-girl love. Beth Kelly's "On 'Woman/Girl Love' - Or, Lesbians <i>Do</i> 'Do It'" noted that the ignorant reactions of many lesbians to man/boy love had helped her to understand "what it could mean to know that your most intensely private moments were nothing more than threads in the widely woven fabric of political experience that enfolds us all." A lifelong lesbian, she acknowledged being involved in cross-generational love "as a girl and as a woman." She described her sexual love for her great-aunt - more than 50 years her senior - when she was between eight and eleven years old. She summarized her journey to self-acceptance:<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><center>It has always seemed to me that people know when sex is a right thing for them to be doing, when mutually consented to, regardless of who else may or may not share or understand that knowledge. It took some hard object lessons before I finally learned how unusual such logic is in this world. Despite the cultural messages to the contrary that I eventually did receive, I knew that it was possible for a person to be aware of her own physicalness in a sexual way long before the social timetable of "maturity" says she should be - and to be able to act on her awareness. And I know that now, with all my "grown-up" being. Although for several years I succumbed to social sanctions against lesbian and childhood sexuality, and felt ashamed for having had such experiences, I have come to realize the need to affirm them as part of the rich texture of both human experience in general and my own conscious reality in particular. [6]</center></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><center>It has always seemed to me that people know when sex is a right thing for them to be doing, when mutually consented to, regardless of who else may or may not share or understand that knowledge. It took some hard object lessons before I finally learned how unusual such logic is in this world. Despite the cultural messages to the contrary that I eventually did receive, I knew that it was possible for a person to be aware of her own physicalness in a sexual way long before the social timetable of "maturity" says she should be - and to be able to act on her awareness. And I know that now, with all my "grown-up" being. Although for several years I succumbed to social sanctions against lesbian and childhood sexuality, and felt ashamed for having had such experiences, I have come to realize the need to affirm them as part of the rich texture of both human experience in general and my own conscious reality in particular. [6]</center></div></td></tr>
</table>Adminhttps://brongersma.info/index.php?title=Man/boy_love_and_the_American_gay_movement&diff=40842&oldid=prevAdmin: Created page with "'''Text by David Thorstad''' <b>SUMMARY.</b> The issue of man/boy love has intersected the gay movement since the late nineteenth century, with the rise of the first gay righ..."2018-05-19T13:38:25Z<p>Created page with "'''Text by David Thorstad''' <b>SUMMARY.</b> The issue of man/boy love has intersected the gay movement since the late nineteenth century, with the rise of the first gay righ..."</p>
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